a real world example of what we're talking about. that would be curt bramble. i'm not here to pander. i don't have to ask for your favors here, curt. but if you look at what you did on immigration reform and on energy, just to mention a couple, and your election returns, you would have to say in a you're probably a textbook example of what happens when you get out the do the right thing. you're actually able to get things done in the end and have a legacy to look to. it's more than just rhetoric and textbook theory. some have put it in practice and you should be proud of what you've done and i know curt's put it in practice. i didn't mean to embarrass you but i wanted to put that out there as a real world example. >> we just have a couple minutes left. are there any members of the audience who would like to pose

a question? we have senator ward from hawaii. gene, you're up. >> can we come visit? >> aloha. but hawaii is unique, obviously not only because of its terrain but because of its political history. we have super majority. i'm in the house of 51. my caucus is seven. in the senate there's one republican and 24 democrats. what are some insights i can bring back? i really like the concept not because i'm in the minority but because we are americans first then republicans then democrats but we tend to forget that and you guys are reminding us. but how do you get inside the inner psychology to motivate people who have had a super majority and have for 50 years to do something like this what you gentlemen are talking about? thank you. >> i'll make a quick comment

and let him follow up. so i've lived in four countries, only one of which doesn't have a strategy. this one. we don't have a strategy in this country. we sort of meender along and hope we're doing the right thing. we hope the economics work out. we hope our sort of innovative spirit will keep us moving in a way that speaks to competitiveness which is what the 21st century will be about. no labels is doing a very i want resting thing. we don't know what it will look like but we are putting together a strategy document for the united states. so it should be out maybe february or march of next year in the form of an e book. so if you were to say republican or democrat, it dint matter, we're all americans, what does the united states need to get right for us to achieve our true greatness in the 21st century? well, we think there are four or five things we are going to have to get right as a nation.

they're just important. i would suspect for a state, the same thing is true. if you're in a minority position, you're going to have to work with the majority. but what are those issues that you're working on? what is the strategy for the state? we had a strategy in our state that spoke to jobs and economic vitality and we had a few things that were on our list that we just had to get done. the tax code had to work, education had to work. you had to have regulatory system that worked. you had to be fast on the dime in working with the private sector because they could take their investment and go elsewhere real fast. so we had our own little strategy. and i would guess that you sitting down, what is the strategy for hawaii? what is it that you must get ght to survive in the 21st century? and that then define what is you need to do even if you find yourself in the minority position. >> did i hear you correctly are you the only republican in the

tate senate? >> i'm actually in the house. but there is one senator out of 25 in the senate and there are 7 out of 51 in the house. so we are eight out of 76. >> we're trying to change your dynamic. >> well, the united states capitol there's a saying in the house that the other political party is the opposition. but the enemy, the enemy is the senate. so i guess we temporarily lumped you in with the enemy. so we're sorry about that. it sounds like your side emphasizes quality not quantity. so i take the approach that my state is the more republican state altogether. i used to tell my friends you've got to vote for at least one democrat to prove your open minded. enough of them thought that was

ok. i would just associate myself with what john had to say. in this day and age we face a number of crises. i think the economy is not performing the way we would like. real wages have been stagnant in our country for more than a decade. think about that. at the time when the cost of college and a whole host of other things, health care has going up, real wages have been frozen. you're familiar with the budget problem that we face. there is a growing disparity between the haves and have nots in our society and that should concern all of us over time. and all these things are in some ways int related. so if i would pick one thing i would agree with what john had to say. what is our comparative advantage? how do we grow this economy in a very competitive world and in particular how do we empower, not just give but empower our citizens through hard work and thrift and all those sorts of things to enjoy some of the fruits of that growth

particularly the third that aren't getting the education, the kids that aren't getting the quality of education that they need to be economically relevant in a competitive global economy. that's what i would focus on. i also suspect that you're probably a little more concerned about rising oceans than we are in indiana. so i put that on the list. that would be my take on it. >> good afternoon. i'm from minnesota and i joined new labels about two years ago. i'm a paying member. i'm a democrat representing a republican area. it's always been like that with redistricting it got worse. now about 60% republican. and my first election was in 2005 and my slogan was uniting the middle. my margins keep getting better so i think that i've hit on something that really appeals tot people in my community. and so one of my comments as you talk about your vision,

i've been thinking -- there is an effort to get more state legislators and i'm thrilled with that. i think now is the time and we can really make a sweeping difference. but one of the things i've been grappling with is transportation infrastructure because i think tax reform is a federal issue as well as a state issue, immigration reform has to be tackled nationally. but one thing that each of us grapples with is what we're going to do with regard to transportation infrastructure. i remember being so excited when president obama talked about his commitment to rail and that really kind of died and there wasn't a comprehensive support for that as well as other state-to-state initiatives. so i'm wondering if you have a comment on the power of states uniting around transportation infrastructure and if you also see that as one of the economic drivers. i think we all know about innovation, creativity and those things as economic drivers. but if you can't move from place to place and be mobile,

that's really an obstacle for our business community. >> first, thanks for sharing your story. i think that's absolutely awesome. and i'm going to tuck that away and reflect on your comments for the rest of the day and week and month because you're really what this effort is all about. we now have some state and local leaders. we just did a phone call in the last few days we had lieutenant governors, secretary of the state, senators, representatives, mayors on the line probably numbering 300 plus and we're just getting going. so we're doing this every month having a phone call and sharing ideas in the run-up to next july 23rd, where as evan said we're going to have the first ever of its kind state and local gathering. you've got fliers on your seats. be sure to read that. and i know we have some no labels people here in the audience. raise your hands. feel free to talk to any of them about questions that you might have. but this is a big deal.

on the infrastructure side, it always seemed a little disingenuous when all of a sudden on the republican side it became a bad word. i don't know how a nation competes without adequate infrastructure. now, i've lived in china most recently and there's an example of overbuilding. you've got a lot of roads to nowhere. they had a stimulus package in 2009 that was probably 4 trillion yen, equal to maybe $650 billion. the largest stimulus package in the world. and so they had overdone it. but sometime take a flight from shanghai to beijing into newark or into kennedy and you get a sense that we've got some work to do in this country. and it isn't republican-democrat. this is about survival and competitiveness. you've got to get people around. you've got to get your products around. we're still the largest market place in the world. we still own 20 plust of the

world's g.d.p. we're a huge market. we're viable. and we're just kind of taking off when you look at the engines of growth that might look in the future. so this is important. but it's got to be presented as an economic opportunity for expansion and for jobs as posed to the red-blue, republican-democrat. it gets trapped. because of that you can't even have a discussion about it. so keep doing what you're doing. >> we have time for one more question. >> good afternoon. thank you for being here. and senator, would you ask the panelists, -- i appreciate you using the bully pulpit of your positions to encourage us or shame us into more partisanship but the gridlock still exists. has no labels movement considered taking on one issue like transportation or immigration reform and fixing that problem and branding it as a no labels initiative and

breaking the paradigm that way? >> let's have this be the final comment from both of our presenters. >> well, first you come from a great state. and one of my favorite -- itch twin 18-year-old boys and one of my favorite vacations was spending 8 or 9 days in alaska fishing and hiking. so i hope you'll take good care of it. yes, we have. and there was the first initiative -- nancy correct me -- was no budget, no pay. it may come as a surprise to state legislators and governors that the federal government had budget.hout passing a and we tried to shame them but finally it was an appeal to their pocketbook that was more persuasive. and said you're not going to get paid. well, surprisingly or not surprisingly, both houses

passed a bunlt shortly thereafter. but again that was to begin the process of making the budgetary apparatus in washington more functional and responsible. we have a list of eight or nine other things that there's been consensus on. but it's going to start small and be gradual because these problems didn't arise overnight they're not going to be cured overnight. but you're correct. no budget, no pay. and there are eight or nine other things that there's consense suss on that will begin to show that it's not just a process, it's a process that can lead to tangible results. >> very quickly. what i said earlier that you could be part of history, i really do mean that. you could be part of history. no labels to date has been about convening and building trust. that's what we've been about without advocating any issues in particular. you raised a very, very good point. and it's what we within the organization are talking about. so as we go into next year i think we're going to be looking

more at advocating some of the big issues around what that strategy should be that this country must get right. but your voice in this organization could be absolutely instrumental in shaping an agenda and helping to move that forward. because you have great clout on capitol hill here and with every governor in this country. so we would hope that whatever we do we could work collaboratively. but for us this would be making history going from advocacy or nonadvocacy, really a convening organization, to some form of advocacy. that's certainly on our minds. and we want your help with it. >> we would like to thank both gove nor huntsman and senator bye. as a state senator it's interesting that both of these gentlemen are putting forward the notion that whether you're a liberal democrat or conservative republican, that we're americans first and we should be governing not grandstanding. for me personally, when i was

asked if i would moderate this, i thought what a privilege it would be to hear the message that they're delivering. so we want to thank them. let's give them a round of applause. [applause] >> this concludes our lunch program. immediately following we have our business meeting. as soon as the business meeting officers are up here on the dais we will begin. so we'll ask that you stick around so we can conclude the business of the forum. >> thank you. [applause] >> next on c-span, republican senator rand paul of kentucky speaking yesterday at the detroit economic club about jobs and the economy. after that, "washington journal." live at 7:00 a.m. eastern. followed by a house

subcommittee hearing on the status of disability claims at the veterans affairs epartment.

[applause] >> well, good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. on this nice brisk detroit, michigan day. it's my honor to introduce dr. rand paul, the junior senator from kentucky, the united states senator. he was elected in 2010 and certainly has made his mark in just a very short time. he has proven to be an outspoken champion for constitutional liberty and fiscal responsibility. and a warrior against government overreach. among his first legislative proposals, cutting of $500 billion federal funding proposal and a plan to balance the federal budget in just 5 years. he has since introduced similar

bills with growing support. in the senate, senator rand serves on the foreign relations committee, the health and education and labor and pension, homeland security, and government affairs, and the small business committee. a graduate of duke university school of medicine, dr. paul was a practicing ophthalmologist in bowling green, kentucky, for 17 years. in 1995, he founded the southern kentucky lions eye clinic, an organization that provides eye exams and surgeries to needy families and individuals. and he still does that probono work today. senator paul has been a vocal advocate for term limits, a balanced budget amendment, a read the bills act, an audit of the federal reserve. he has also gained prominence for his independent positions on many political issues. now, on a personal note,

senator paul is a devoted husband and father. he's been married for 23 years to kelly, and has three sons. and you can see him at green high school cheering on his son, who is a soccer player, as they went into the semi finals. our history here at the detroit economic club is to showcase interesting and diverse ideas and solutions to issues of the day. today, senator rand paul will unveil his new legislative proposal to remove bankrupt detroit and other economically blighted areas from poverty and the shackles of big government. please give a warm detroit, michigan, welcome to senator rand paul. [applause]

>> thank you very much. people ask me how big a deal is it to give a speech to the detroit economic club? and i say it's such a big deal that i gave so many speeches and interviews saying i was going to give a speech that i lost my voice. and i'm not kidding you. it is a big deal to be here and i'm really glad to be here. there was a little girl you may have heard about her. she wanted $100 and she decided she would write a note to god. she wrote a note and said dear god will you send me a $100? i promise to do good. the post meavert master didn't know what to do.

so he sent it to the president. he president said that's cute. so he sent $5. back write a letter saying dear god. thank you for the $5. but next time please don't send it through washington because they stole $95 of it. it is an honor to be here in detroit. i want to thank beth for making the trains work on time. and i would like to thank you all for letting me be part of this and helping us get to detroit. i think when i started thinking about this speech, i thought we need to find out something great that's going on in

detroit. so i was looking for somebody who said something nice and i found something by jack. and i thought i would have to sing it. but i did find a young intern at quicken loans named lisa. she said, i found out the truth about detroit. it's unstoppable. not because it's wealthy, powerful, and growing -- because it isn't -- detroit is unstaphable because the people here cannot be stopped. the citizens of this city are the light at the end of the tunnel. the one man left standing. the underdog who actually wins. they are optimism, promise, potential, and hope. optimism is bringing this city back. this city is isn't afraid of opportunity. it's not discouraged by its past. it's excited about its future. i just loved the way she put that. a young woman who really believes and is optimistic about detroit. detroit's future and lisa's future will not come from

washington. the magic of motown is here in the city. it's not in some central planner's notebook. what detroit needs to thrive is not washington'sdom nearing hand but freedom from big government's mastry. to thrive, detroit needs less government and more freedom, less red tape, less punitive taxes, more money left in detroit. the answer to poverty and unemployment is not another government stimulus. it's simply leaving more money in the hands of those who earned it. today i'm here to introduce something i call economic freedom zones. this is a bill that will be introduced next week in washington. these freedom zones will dramatically reduce taxes and red tape so detroit businesses can grow and thrive. freedom zones are similar to an idea jack kemp introduced a couple decades ago. kemp loved figuring out ways to empower people, real people, regardless of race or family background. he called his plan a

conservative war on poverty. it's time we revisit some of these ideas of jack kemp and expand upon them. i told somebody recently, this is jack kemp's enterprise zones on steroids. the bill that i will introduce will introduce these and empower and begin these economic freedom zones. this bill will lower perm and corporate income taxes in detroit to 5%. my bill will also lower the payroll tax 2% for the employees, 2% for the employers. economic freedom zones will cut out the red tape that keeps new businesses from starting and old businesses from thriving. inside these zones will suspend the capital gains tax, encourage greater investment in business and real estate, and we will allow all small businesses to deduct most of what they invest in the first year of the purchase. how will this differ from a traditional government stimulus? well first, these zones don't ask houston or they don't ask

atlanta to bail out detroit. these zones free up detroit to bail themselves out. this isn't just about detroit. i'm a politician. so i'm a little concerned about my home. we're concerned about kentucky. we're concerned about any zip code with unemployment greater than the average. so any community in america with 12% bralksly or more would be eligible for these freedom zones. these would be struggling communities across america. it would include many in my home state. there are 20 counties in my part of the state who are in a depression right now. we're struggling in my state, too. the freedom zones differ from traditional government stimulus in that no central planner, no politician in washington will decide who gets the money. the money will simply be left with its rightful owner. the man or the woman who by sweat equity earned it.

the freedom zone stimulus will work where traditional government stimulus hasn't worked because the government stimuluses that we've had, the money gets passed out to special interest and those who give you campaign contributions. it's not based whether they can do anything or run a business. those are the people who get the stimulus money. in this plan the money will stay with the people that consumers have already voted for. the people that democratic capitalism has already run through the gauntlt. the people have already proven that they can run a business. too often when government picks the winners and losers we wind up with mostly losers. think sol indra. over 500 million of your dollars was given to one of the richest men in the world. why would we be given a loan? the president says he's for the middle class. why would he be giving a loan to one of the richest men in the world. but people didn't want this

guy's product. so it went out of business and we lost the money and we're stuck with the tab. economic freedom zones won't make that mistake. the lower taxes will benefit any business that consumers have already seen fit to endorse. only consumer tested winners will get the money. and through their success create jobs, more jobs for the rest of us. economic freedom zones will over a 10-year period, if my bill were to pass, leave over $1.3 billion in detroit. so those who say oh it won't work, there won't be enough money, we've calculated it. $1.3 billion stimulus not from houston, not from atlanta, from you. it's your money. we're not going to take it to washington. we'll leave it with you. how could anybody be opposed to this? [applause]

the $1.3 billion will be left and will help detroit to thrive again and create jobs here. the money won't go to my friends or president obama's friends. it's just going to go back to the people who earned it. it will go to the friends of the consumer. regulatory relief will also help create opportunity. it will lower the opportunity costs that hold new and old businesses back and cost detroit millions of dollars a year. if we use numbers from a similar project that happened in maryland, i estimate that repealing some of this stormwater craziness that they're forcing every city to do would save detroit $16.5 million a year. i'm guessing that would pay for some police protection, some fire protection, and all the basic things you want in your city. but we also want to encourage entrepreneurs not only in detroit but we want people to move to detroit from around the country and around the world. we want to allow immigration to our country where people have

capital. right now we're losing people. people are going to canada because the income tax is 15% so canada is getting all these great entrepreneurs from around the world and we're losing them. why? corporate income tax is 35%. economic enterprise zones would expedite these visas for people who have $50,000. let them come to our country. i don't think you want a handout. just look at your history of innovation. look at the proud history of detroit. look at henry ford who not only produced a car that his assembly line men and women could afford to buy, he also shortened the workweek and increased wages. we were the industrial giant of the world. detroit was the greatness of america. government didn't do this. you did this. government didn't discover create motown greats like smoky robinson or diana ross. today doesn't need to be any different. we need to look at ourselves, look in the mirror and allow ours the freedom to create and

innovate. you have leaders like this. think of dan gilbert of quicken loans that are pouring their hearts and souls and money into detroit. quicken loans has spent more $1 billion in detroit over moved few years and 3600 employees into the city. creating thousands of jobs. quicken loans and sister companies have 12,000 employees working in downtown detroit. quicken loans is proving all the naysayers wrong. go to quicken loans at woodward avenue and you'll get a glimpse moved it's future flt 3600 employees into the city. creating thousands of jobs. the en loans and sister -- i don't say this to make a partisan point. the fact is both parties are to blame. there's enough blame to go around. both parties, democrat and republican, they must admit that we haven't done all we

could do for the people who live in the cities, particularly detroit. many have said the problems we see in detroit, well, it just means it's the end of time. we're done for as a country. woe is me. let's give up. they say we can't create enough jobs. we'll never do it again. i disagree. they say the schools will get worse. i disagree. they say the divide between rich and poor will only grow. i disagree. i don't believe it. i don't believe it for a moment. anywhere else detroit or anywhere else in the country, this is the end of times. we are the greatest country on ert. and have developed so much capital because we believed in freedom and we believed in ourselves. but for this to come true again, for us to revive our cities and our economy, we have to try to do something we haven't been trying. we can't just keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. what we need is a new vision of prosperity, one that won't

leave whole communities behind. politicians have thrown our money at problems before. the bailouts, the stimulus programs. they haven't worked. this current president gave you $1 trillion. not detroit. he gave the country $1 trillion in stimulus. you divide it up and it was $400 per child. tun employment numbers didn't budget. it doesn't work. let's try something different. we spend unbelievable sums and money on education yet our schools are falling apart. throwing more money at them is not the answer. we have to allow them to innovate. we must reverse this trend towards big government. we must end capital welfare, crony capitalism and the limits that stifle us. we must encourage policies that lift up the individual, improve the schools and get us back to work. it can't be a bailout though. it won't work. it will just lead us further down a path of dependency forever subjecting ourselves to

half baked ideas and mandates coming out of washington. more jobs are only one part of this solution, though. i believe we must also show that we can build on a government that values our god-given rights of all americans. in addition to economic freedom zones we have to have a 21st century civil rights agenda with education, choice, voting rights, and prison reform as its foundation. no one's life should be ruined because of a youthful mistake. no one should be thrown in prison for years and decades when they haven't hurt anyone but themselves. no one should lose their voting rights because they spent time in prison. it does us no good to create jobs for young people in detroit if they can't later get such jobs because of an out-of-control war on drugs. mandatory minimum sentences that force judges to give 10, 20, sometimes 50 year sentences for drug offenses are crazy and they've got to end.

it is a human tragedy. it is an idea of justice. and there need to be new voices from either party that will say it's time to change. this is whay i've joined with democrats on this. [applause] i've joined with democrats on this. i'm working with senator leahy from vermont to try to give junls more freedom, more leeway when it comes to sentencing. if it were your kid would you want to know whether it was their first crime? whether there's a chance to rehabilitate them? whether it's a drug addiction problem that's a health problem and not going to get better in prison? would you want to know there might be other solutions? nonviolent felons who serve their time should get back in society, should be able to get a job, be able to vote, have a life and have a family. their children should look at what comes from happiness and hard work. we talk about the family unit

owing down the drain, and we are preventing families from going back. we must address the federal mindset that values arrest rates. it is not because white kids in affluent suburbs are not also smoking pot, it is they tend to be arrested and do not have as good representation and the police gravitate there because it is easier. it has been going on for a long time. it is not a purposeful racism, but we have a racial return on the war on drugs that is not fair. minority communities are easy targets. some say that is good politics. maybe it is bad policy, and good people suffer every day as a result. it is a policy that tears apart families and hollows out communities, yet every day there are more victims of this war on drugs.

it is not point of pride in this country that we now have the highest incarceration rate in the world. incarceration rates have skyrocketed 800% since 1980. the growth of the prisoner population is unsustainable. we are spending your money every year to keep people locked up, many of whom who are not a threat to others. is a terrible fact that the war on drugs that black and latinos are disproportionately incarcerated. the number one impediment of voting in our country comes from the war on drugs. in my state you never get the right to vote back. i have a friend whose brother grew marijuana plants in college, got convicted of a felony, he still cannot vote 30 years later. when he tries to get a job, he checks out a box to say he is a felon. we are destroying people's lives from the beginning.

we need new voices that will talk about this. policies that brought up this injustice should be repealed. the best way to help young people i think keep them happy, prosperous, and out of jail is education. it is a tricky business. what we have is not working. it may not be a magic list that will make our schools the best, but what we can do and what we need to do is expand the options, more choices for people, have to be better. the best way to provide education is through competition and school choice, just vouchers, charter schools. we need and all the above strategy, less mandates from washington, more local control. we need to give people flexibility when it comes to where they send their kids to school. a pastor says school choice is a civil rights issue. he might be right.

we are part of the country that tries school choice as benefits, especially minorities. too much the government says here is a school in your district, it is failing, tough luck. people in detroit have had enough of this. a percent of the parents in detroit would have enough choice would take another choice. families want the screen to choose to send their kids were they would like to send them. i want them to have as many choices as possible. i live where public schools are good. my kids are sent to the public high school in kentucky. in my county, my kids can choose from five different schools. they have to compete with each other. i cannot understand how anyone could be against competition, empowering parents with choice. the freedom to innovate is important. charter schools get rid of this top-down approach, one-size-fits-all. study showed charter kids learn

more material than their counterparts. opponents of school choice complained and say that his government money. you sent government the money to private or religious schools? absolutely, but it is not government money. is there some kind of mythological government that it elongs to? it is your money, taken out of your paycheck. if you want to use your money to send your kid to a private school, i all means let's do it. the president does. the president is rich enough to do it. he does not have a voucher, but the rest of us, we may not have enough left to set our kids to private schools. so we get our money back and send our kids where we want hem to go.

the bill will give education money to the students right now or is money that comes back that goes to poor schools. we attach it to the kids. do not send it to the schools. they take it to whichever school they want to. the good schools will rise up and succeed and the bad schools will fade away. we have tax credits for education. $5,000 tax credit. this is a broad agenda, how we transform communities. it will touch everyone in this city. from the first time they go to school to becoming parents. economic freedom so that will remove government obstacles to success. it will provide a generation of citizens, students, workers with a new bargain, and the government will get underway. it will treat you like an adult. it will treat everyone equally under the law, it will help parents control their children's future and their education, it will help creators have more jobs for workers.

it will treat you the same way everyone else, the matter the color of your skin, what part of town you comfort. we have tried the bailouts, excessive taxation. it has not worked. it does not work. we will try a new approach. you can meet your new challenges as you rebuild your cities, it will endure and prevail. i promise you that i will work you do we do that. thank you very much. [applause]

>> it is my job to sort hundreds of questions and tried to get them into some kind of order. i will start locally with a student question. what made you take interest in detroit's issues? >> they are in the news. i think about it from two different perspectives. i will be honest with you. i am about politician, i'm a republican, i want votes. our party needs or votes and they are not getting more out of detroit. i am a physician and i want to diagnose problems and come up with solutions. in the past, a lot of times republicans have said the free market will float all votes. it is the best humanitarian ystem. you will see specific problems. that want a specific

solution. detroit is the culmination of the problems of a lot of big cities. chicago has the same problems. 20 rural counties in my state have these problems as well. we are talking about detroit. everything i'm saying that apply to other parts of the country who are suffering. there's a history when big cities were the great engine. now with the government drag, we got to get active where the big cities are an engine for improvement. >> the next question, how do you plan on getting african-americans to embrace your detroit plant and the gop in general, and could you sign y pocket constitution? >> we republicans got about 5% of the african-american vote. that is not very good. it used to be better.

at one point in time it was completely the opposite. in 1920 we got nearly 99% of the african-american vote. 1928, we were up over 2/3 of the way. a dramatic switch from 1928 to 932. it is not that the issues, we have to change our opinions and attitudes on issues, but it is true that if you do not have money or you do not have a business, you are not concerned about regulation and taxes. if i talk to people trying to get ahead in life and are not yet successful, that could be young people, it could be certain ethnic groups on occasion, there is a side about regulation and taxes, about the idea that everybody should be treated fairly under the law, that the justice system should not unfairly imprisoned people of some races, and your

individual liberty should be protected. one thing is we do not think any individual should be incarcerated without a trial. that sounds like a new in america does not believe that? you would be surprised. we passed two years ago a law that allows for the indefinite detention of an american citizen. i had a debate with another senator, and i said this means you could send an american citizen guantanamo bay without a trial? he said, yes, if they are dangerous. that begs the question, who gets to decide who is dangerous or not? i think back to richard jewell. everybody said he was a bomber. everybody in the media said he was guilty. if he had been a black man in the south, he would have been strung up from the closest tree. that is why you have to believe in you process. we once did it to african americans, because what we did to japanese-americans, and now

what we threaten to do the people we accuse of crimes without a trial. with the ideas of justice, believing everybody has a right to a lawyer and to a trial by jury, not everybody believes that anymore, and if we can talk about these issues of justice, fairness, and so continue to believe in low taxes and less regulation, talk about privacy, how your cell phone is your business, your e-mail is her business, all of a sudden there will be a new group of people who will listen to us. > thank you. >> this question is around the federal auto rescue. the question says, the federal auto rescue worked. thousands of jobs were saved here and across america. much as been repaid. isn't this a success story? >> i think there are two different ways to skin a cat as far as trying to get something to work.

for me, for example, it is the difference between government stimulus to everybody versus front to give targeted tax breaks to people who need to get ahead. what i would've probably done, and you could argue whether it would work or how much has been payback back and how much the stock is worth, and there are debatable point of both sides, but i would say is there are ways to do this where we would look at the car industry and say what is government doing to make the car industry less profitable? are the ways we could get government out of the way? i prefer those over a direct bailout of any industry. i may not be popular in detroit, but i think it is better to look at an industry, when an industry is suffering, to say what are the obstacles that government is placing in its way, taking those obstacles out of the way, rather than have a specific government payment.

>> there's a couple of questions, this again is a student question. for this new bill, how do you plan to receive a partisan support? >> we have already started. i had dinner with your senior senator, senator levin, about a month ago, and discussed superficially some aspects of this. we sent this bill to all your michigan legislators. it will go out to all of them. there will be some obstacles, because what i am talking about is maybe in some ways philosophically effort than what many in the democratic party believe. many on the democrat side only believe in the government stimulus, that the government must pass the money out to everyone and give everybody in detroit a check, or $50,000 to a startup. the reason it does not work is nine out of 10 is going to fail, so how do you know the right person? we opened the republican office

in northwest detroit earlier today, and a gentleman came over who owns his own business and has a restaurant. his question was, do you have anything in your bill for tax breaks for small businesses? if he is succeeding, made it a year or two in business, that is the person where the customers have chosen him. hat is who gets the money. all of us together when we buy stuff become smart enough to decide who the businesses are. i think that is how the money ought to be distributed. >> this question, moving from detroit more toward washington, and larger issues. how can you assist speaker boehner to unite groups in the republican party, chairman, unite behind the budget and

control spending caps, to ensure 218 votes to pass legislation in 2014? someone is really counting. >> i thought we said no hard questions. it may be impossible. it is the thing you always try, historically, to square the circle. it may be impossible. the reason is we have to pass budgets. the house passed a budget and so did the senate. the house budget did not raise taxes, and the senate budget aised taxes. we do not want to split the difference on that, but i will not compromise on raising taxes and $500 billion. it would be a disaster. i'm trying to lower taxes for detroit. i do not want to raise taxes. it is hard to come to an agreement. we have divided government.

the most likely thing that happens in january is another c.r. a crummy way to run your government. but when we are so far apart of the subway, our country is almost evenly split. half republicans and have the guts. but we believe in is very far apart, and it is hard to find agreement. the debate is good and we should not say because they are debating him because we have the discussion that is bad. the have been debating since the beginning of the epublic. >> there are several questions around this question of the polarization and the disgust that americans have for ridlock in washington. what do you propose to help heal some of that? >> i think we can agree to disagree and not necessarily always be disagreeable.

some of that is personalities and how we work things out. the president and i -- i think we get along fine. i have ridden on air force one when he talked about infrastructure. i have tried to be supportive. there have been various foreign-policy initiatives that i have not attacked him and tried to be supportive of him on. on the drug issues, it has taken him a while, but he is now doing something about some of the mandatory minimums. on infrastructure, there is a way that we could have more infrastructure money -- it is all the money earned overseas by american corporations, nearly $2 trillion from them, could be brought home. tax it at 5%, and probably hundreds of billions of dollars in money comes home, but just in tax revenue, at 5%, you would doubled the money we have available for infrastructure

and if we could just tax it at 5%. it is a win-win solution. we lower the tax rate. we get more revenue and we built some roads. and i talked to the president about that, and the president said this cbo score is a loss of revenue because it is not coming in at 35%. 0% is coming home. we have to overcome the cbo score on this. i said, we vote to overturn all the other rules, let's vote to overturn this one. there is a chance we could past that. there's more of a chance that we could pass that than overall tax reform, which we do not agree on. >> why are you such a proponent of congressional term limits? >> send the bums home. hey need to get a job.

>> we should have people come in. i asked if i could practice medicine, and they said no. you actually would want people up there to maintain their job so they would not be afraid of losing their job in washington. we have term limits for the president. after fdr, that is too much for he presidency. i think 12 years in the house, 12 years in the senate. if you want a lifetime up there, 24 years is a long time. you could do 12 years in the house, 12 years in the senate. i think 12 is better than six, because six might not be -- you have this debate. they may be too short. i think at the same time they can also -- we can have people there too long. it would beat you down. i've been there three years, and i get beaten down every day.

it is how long you can maintain your inspiration and try to change something. i think fresh blood is ood. >> the next question, how do you think the republican party or the conservative movement can convince their own members that broadening our party through minority outreach is actually possible? >> i think they just have to look at the facts. i have been pretty harsh about our prospects for winning the presidency as the republican party. we either adapt, we evolve, or we die. that is a pretty harsh assessment. if you look at things in demographic terms, and i hate to categorize things by risk, but if you look at by race john mccain got more of that caucasian vote than bush did and lost. romney got more of it than mccain did and lost. we need to be a more diverse party. i tell people we need people in our party that do not all have ties on.

we need people with tattoos, without tattoos, people with pony tails, hearing some from all different walks of life, all different colors, creeds, and the democratic party is more diverse than we are. it is why they're winning more elections. some of the diversity is also we need to appeal to people in cities. some of that is ethnically related. we need to use all the big cities. we have to change. we will not be able to win nationally again, and some people are stuck in a rut on this. a lot of people are waking up. the michigan gop knows we have to do better if we're going to win. >> i am bringing it on home with the last two questions. what are your thoughts on obamacare? too many questions. i had to ask you three. >> i may need a couple hours. it is unraveling on its own effects. i was telling jonathan that i

think it is not that government is inherently stupid, although that is a debatable point. it is that they do not get the right incentives. the business would be run this way because you would be run out of business immediately. we have put into law perverse incentives. people who had cheap insurance no longer can buy that. it is what they could afford and that is the only way they had it. i was one of them. i used to have family coverage for five people, for $5,000. a $5,000 deductible. in obamacare, you can have a higher detectable and still pay $20,000 because there is a mandate built into it. the problem is the insurance company is never going to offer those policies again because they are told within a year, if you delay it for year, then in a year everyone will be forced to buy the new policies, which are more expensive. let's say you sell bread and

you sell for a dollar a loaf, and they say, we're going to force everybody to buy for two dollars a loaf, but you have to continue selling it for dollar. the problem is the young healthy people were already not buying insurance because it was too expensive under the old system. now we have made it more expensive. you think we have more or less people buying it? within a year it may spiral out of control or premiums come back before the next election and the premiums go up to such a deep degree that this thing collapses. it may come down to democrats beg us to fix it. the only reason they may not is the president seems to think he is a monarch and that he can fix it on his own with no vote. >> the final question -- and this is from a student and what everyone in the audience wants to know -- what are your plans for running for president

in 2016? >> where is my cell phone. can i call my wife? i tell her there are two votes in my family. my wife has both of them. both of them are no votes. right now i do not know yet, but i thank you for your interest. thank you very much. >> senator paul, thank you so very, very much. what a privilege it has been to be your host today, and what a privilege it has been for you to lay out your plans at the detroit economic club. we so appreciate it. dottie, thank you so much.

ladies and gentlemen, we know you're busy. thank you for investing time with us today, and with that, this meeting is adjourned. thank you for being with us. ave a great day. >> coming up next on ashington journal", robert zarate. for that, the center public integrity. then a discussion with new york

university professor about genetically modified foods and the laws that some state legislators are considering when it comes to labeling the foods for consumers. ♪ president obama and secretary of state john kerry will address issues concerning the middle east at the brookings institution. look to c-span for information. journal andeet others say patty murray wants to include an extension of unemployment benefits in the deal being hashed out by republican conferees. unemployment now at seven percent. jobs were over 200,000 created